Handbrake shoes part no?
31 Oct 2012 20:32 #1
by dandjcr
David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
dandjcr created the topic: Handbrake shoes part no?
Forum Home > OKA Maintenance > Handbrake shoes part no?
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Hey all, anyone have a part number for XT handbrake shoes?
Had a search and couldn't find anything.
Cheers
Luke
December 3, 2011 at 11:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Nomad
Member
Posts: 30
I can't help with a number, but if you get stuck the brake books that your local parts supplier (Repco, Autopro, etc) use will have actual size diagrams of brake pads and shoes. I spent five years as a parts interpreter and needed to resort to sifting through the pictures on more than one occasion to find an obscure brake from an unknown source that had been fitted to a trailer.A bit of a hassle but the diagrams are deadly accurate and will see you right.
--
David & Christina Wight - Nomad Refrigeration - OKA267
December 3, 2011 at 8:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Hank Onthewater
Member
Posts: 79
the XT partlist (printed October 1994) shows for the handbrake: part No. 000969 as "brake assembly", that includes 2 shoes, backingplate, 2 springs -shoe return-, spring from shoe to shoe.
Not sure if this is of any help, maybe the part numbers are OKA numbers, don't know.
December 3, 2011 at 10:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply
David Hallandal
Member
Posts: 133
I had mine Re-Lined from my local brake place.
--
David Hallandal
OKA-131 Home Page
OKA Camper Trailer
XT and LT Service Manuals on CD For Sale
20mm Spring Hanger Upgrade Kits For Sale
December 4, 2011 at 10:02 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Thaks guys, looks like i'l have to take them out to see what they are, what's the rear output yoke nut size? My biggest metric socket, 32mm didn't quite fit.
Also broke a rear wheel stud when i went to change the rotor too, didn't have the wheel bearing wrench anyway. Just getting to know the OKA at the moment, never worked on the dana's till now.
So my list so far is, handbrake shoes to replace, probably the whole kit as i have no handbrake whatso ever.
Both rear rotors and pads, expensive hear in Katherine, $178 for the pads alone.
A/C belt, then re-gas i think, luckily it's only a carton for payment.
Gearbox linkages x 2, never done these either, so gotta find them first.
New rims and tyres are on the way from the USA
Possible engine exchange, see how lucky i get in 2 weeks
December 4, 2011 at 8:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Oh yeah, speedo doesn't work, sensor looks buggered, not positive on this though.
Tacho doesn't work either, hopefully just the wire from the alt, still to check.
December 4, 2011 at 9:45 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, it's probable that your handbrake problem is not the shoes but the mechanics for activating them that don't work effectively.
My shoes are quite worn but it can be made to work well by adjusting or fixing the mechanism. Check the cable hasn't slipped off the pulley under the dashboard and adjust the turnbuckle adjusting block inside the brake drum to tighten the shoes. The pivot arm may also need freeing up and check the operation of the cam lever and cable length.
If your's is an XT, you don't need to remove any yoke nuts to get at the shoes. Remove the 4 fixing bolts behind the drum and move the tail shaft aside. The drum should slide off but may need some mechanical persuasion. Then you can see the mechanism and check it's operation.
Use Loctite or spring washers on the 4 fixing bolts when replacing them, they can work loose.
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148
December 4, 2011 at 11:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Thanks David. The pivot arm moves easily by hand when under the truck, and still doesn't stop the drum, so there may be something awry in the drum.
The 4 bolts, are they the 4 on the drum other than the tailshaft bolts? Had them all off today and the drum wasn't going anywhere, didn't use the persuader though. Are they a similar setup inside to a GU Patrol?
December 4, 2011 at 11:37 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, see the Parts and Suppliers list for gearbox linkage part numbers. Available from CBC or bearing suppliers.
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148
December 4, 2011 at 11:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Already got them, came with it, just got to change them.
December 4, 2011 at 11:44 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, you are right there are 4 bolts which hold the tail shaft yoke on to the transfer box output shaft and also 4 bolts holding the handbrake drum on. I'd forgotten that. Not familiar with the Patrol mechanics.
Yes the drum will be fairly tight but whacking it with a wooden mallet should free it up, there's only a ring of contact around the output shaft (and the shoes if they are binding). Levering it from behind may not work because it can bind on the brake shoes if it doesn't come off straight.
The speedo sensor should be 3-5mm from the lugs on the handbrake drum (if they're not bent) and check the 3 wires from it are not damaged and properly connected. Apparently there is a LED light on the sensor which should flash as the lug passes the sensor although I've never noticed it. (Difficult being underneath while the vehicle is moving).
A quick alternative to chasing the alternator to tacho wiring problem is to replace it with a separate wire.
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148
December 5, 2011 at 12:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter 334
Member
Posts: 118
I do have a Nissan Patrol and they are similar and as it is a drum design and no mount of whacking can remove it the drum, it could have and ring on it and the shoes are passed it and no matter how much you WHACK it, it won't move then you will have to back the adjustment right off and try again; so dont just wack things take time and smell the roses?
December 5, 2011 at 7:45 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Didn't get to the handbrake today. Put on A/C belt, then saw the rear bolt wasn't there, so found one suitable and used it, also saw the alt belt was very very loose. tightened it and had to use extra wide washers on the adjusting bracket as the tip had been cut off, leaving a fork which spreads and pulls smaller washers through.
The alt also has a cracked casing, should be ok i think with a bit of selleys knead it!
Found a chinese speedo sensor for $70 landed too, same part number as the Trukc one.
December 5, 2011 at 10:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dave and Pauline Gray
Member
Posts: 84
My expierence with the removal of brake drums whether it be hanbrake transmission type or axle mounted even after backing off the adjustment a couple of whacks is usually needed .
Cheers Dave
December 6, 2011 at 10:53 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter 334
Member
Posts: 118
Over the years I have never had to whack anything off from 1958 cars to 66, Holden, Ford or Valiant all had drum brakes front and rear. It doesn't hurt to spray some CRC where the drum contacts the hub and leave to soak. If not just whack like some people do!!!!!
December 9, 2011 at 7:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Finally got around to geting the handbrake drum off, been away working.
Found the shoes are covered in oil and there's a fair bit of play in the output shaft, looks like a new seal while I'm in there.
The handbrake would have to be the stupidest design, I can't even see an adjustment wheel in there, unless I'm just looking for the wrong type of adjuster. Handbrake wil be getting changed to something decent for sure.
December 22, 2011 at 1:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, the adjuster is a small hex double ended bolt with left and right hand threaded sections, fitted with lock nuts, which screw into fixed turnbuckle blocks. See pic, I was replacing a clevis pin at the time.
Turning the hex head lengthens or shortens the turnbuckle to the operating rod which expands the shoes via a non-adjustable cam.
Later the LH threaded section failed (stripped thread) and I had to weld another section on to the bolt head. I agree it's not the best arrangement, but it can work well when set up right.
Best not to rely on it totally on a steep slope, use chocks and leave it in a low gear. Before I fixed the hand brake, I was parked in 1st gear on a gently sloping car park while I went to a shop and the weight of the Oka was sufficient to turn the engine and it rolled slowly across the car park, much to Janet's dismay who was in the passengers seat.
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148
December 22, 2011 at 2:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Ah ha, excellent thanks David. I am used to a totally different set up obviously, i was looking behind the shoes.
That pic will help, i saw that grease nipple this morning as it mine has no fitting left on it.
Out of curiosity, how hard is the rear transfer output seal to do, i picked one up today just in case.
Then i'm waiting on my wheel bearing socket to arrive and tackle the rotor exchange, and wheel stud which i snapped, they're not cheap either
December 22, 2011 at 8:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, I haven't replaced the seal myself but looking at the manual pic, it seems the seal is pressed into the adaptor block on the rear of the transfer box and is accessible after removing the output flange.
You'll probably need a rattle gun to remove the centre nut on the shaft (tightened to 90-130 ft-lbs) unless you can lock the flange somehow, then a puller to remove the old seal. Same principle applies to diff seals, which I have done.
Check other posts (or post another query) on hub bearing nuts and lock washers which can also be fun. Also the last section of this article on front axle/hub rebuild may help, same principle front and rear but rear bearings run in diff oil. You might want to consider replacing the rear hub oil seal while the hub is out as they are prone to leaking axle oil.
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148
December 22, 2011 at 9:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Thanks again David. I have a few rattle guns and torque wrenches so should be right in that department.
Hopefully the seal can be replaced easily, i know some cruiser ones can and some have to have the transfer out.
I'll look into the axle seals too, they aren't leaking ATM but probably wouldn't hurt to do. These Danas are a lot different to what i'm used to, total learning curve, which is good, more knowledge.
December 23, 2011 at 7:52 AM
Aussie Bight Expeditions
Member
Posts: 109
If you are doing the rear ones for the broken stud and you do the seal/ Rotors etc, check the bearings and pack the bearings in grease. If you do not they will scorch the surface of the bearing unit and they will fail very quickly.
Reason as Robin Wade told me, was they have no lubricate on them, as the oil takes awhile to get around them. He advises all bearings no matter where they are to pack them first, the grease does no harm to them or use a product they call Honey in the engine rebuilding industry.
Also replace the oil that is lost out of the diff when you do this. Jack the OKA up high on the side you are doing the job and you only loose what is in the hub section.
You might know all this already but it was very good advice at the time from someone who really knows OKA's.
I asume you have been told that the rotor holes need to be enlarged. No problem measure yours when you get them off and drill to same size. I found out that over the years of replacing them due to rust and would of not passing roadworthy every few years, Due to the beach work that I did, not hit them in all the way, but started them, the bolts, and used on old rim cut down or you can use a rim to pull the bolts through evenly with the nuts and a spanner then the will line up when the unit is put all back together. I found out the hard way once when I had someone helping me did it wrong, I onlt found out when I went to put the wheel on, that thge studs were not as they should have been.
Regards ABE TONY
--
December 23, 2011 at 8:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
I take it the bearings are running in oil and not grease then? So there's no seal between the hub and axle?
Just questions beore i go and pull it apart. Might as well ask this too, seeing as i'm changing the rotors, unfortunately only 1 rear and one front are buggered, so i was going to replace both rears with new ones and the good rear one to go in the front to replace the worn one.
I have a set of bearings or the front and rear(spares), so if any need replacing i will do it then. What seals will i need? Hub seals definately? Be good to get everything i need first as the parts may not be on hand here in Katherine, although they have been pretty good as there are a couple in the area.
Cheers and sorry for all the questions, as i said, learning curve on the dana's
December 23, 2011 at 1:35 PM
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Hey all, anyone have a part number for XT handbrake shoes?
Had a search and couldn't find anything.
Cheers
Luke
December 3, 2011 at 11:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Nomad
Member
Posts: 30
I can't help with a number, but if you get stuck the brake books that your local parts supplier (Repco, Autopro, etc) use will have actual size diagrams of brake pads and shoes. I spent five years as a parts interpreter and needed to resort to sifting through the pictures on more than one occasion to find an obscure brake from an unknown source that had been fitted to a trailer.A bit of a hassle but the diagrams are deadly accurate and will see you right.
--
David & Christina Wight - Nomad Refrigeration - OKA267
December 3, 2011 at 8:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Hank Onthewater
Member
Posts: 79
the XT partlist (printed October 1994) shows for the handbrake: part No. 000969 as "brake assembly", that includes 2 shoes, backingplate, 2 springs -shoe return-, spring from shoe to shoe.
Not sure if this is of any help, maybe the part numbers are OKA numbers, don't know.
December 3, 2011 at 10:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply
David Hallandal
Member
Posts: 133
I had mine Re-Lined from my local brake place.
--
David Hallandal
OKA-131 Home Page
OKA Camper Trailer
XT and LT Service Manuals on CD For Sale
20mm Spring Hanger Upgrade Kits For Sale
December 4, 2011 at 10:02 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Thaks guys, looks like i'l have to take them out to see what they are, what's the rear output yoke nut size? My biggest metric socket, 32mm didn't quite fit.
Also broke a rear wheel stud when i went to change the rotor too, didn't have the wheel bearing wrench anyway. Just getting to know the OKA at the moment, never worked on the dana's till now.
So my list so far is, handbrake shoes to replace, probably the whole kit as i have no handbrake whatso ever.
Both rear rotors and pads, expensive hear in Katherine, $178 for the pads alone.
A/C belt, then re-gas i think, luckily it's only a carton for payment.
Gearbox linkages x 2, never done these either, so gotta find them first.
New rims and tyres are on the way from the USA
Possible engine exchange, see how lucky i get in 2 weeks
December 4, 2011 at 8:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Oh yeah, speedo doesn't work, sensor looks buggered, not positive on this though.
Tacho doesn't work either, hopefully just the wire from the alt, still to check.
December 4, 2011 at 9:45 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, it's probable that your handbrake problem is not the shoes but the mechanics for activating them that don't work effectively.
My shoes are quite worn but it can be made to work well by adjusting or fixing the mechanism. Check the cable hasn't slipped off the pulley under the dashboard and adjust the turnbuckle adjusting block inside the brake drum to tighten the shoes. The pivot arm may also need freeing up and check the operation of the cam lever and cable length.
If your's is an XT, you don't need to remove any yoke nuts to get at the shoes. Remove the 4 fixing bolts behind the drum and move the tail shaft aside. The drum should slide off but may need some mechanical persuasion. Then you can see the mechanism and check it's operation.
Use Loctite or spring washers on the 4 fixing bolts when replacing them, they can work loose.
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148
December 4, 2011 at 11:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Thanks David. The pivot arm moves easily by hand when under the truck, and still doesn't stop the drum, so there may be something awry in the drum.
The 4 bolts, are they the 4 on the drum other than the tailshaft bolts? Had them all off today and the drum wasn't going anywhere, didn't use the persuader though. Are they a similar setup inside to a GU Patrol?
December 4, 2011 at 11:37 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, see the Parts and Suppliers list for gearbox linkage part numbers. Available from CBC or bearing suppliers.
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148
December 4, 2011 at 11:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Already got them, came with it, just got to change them.
December 4, 2011 at 11:44 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, you are right there are 4 bolts which hold the tail shaft yoke on to the transfer box output shaft and also 4 bolts holding the handbrake drum on. I'd forgotten that. Not familiar with the Patrol mechanics.
Yes the drum will be fairly tight but whacking it with a wooden mallet should free it up, there's only a ring of contact around the output shaft (and the shoes if they are binding). Levering it from behind may not work because it can bind on the brake shoes if it doesn't come off straight.
The speedo sensor should be 3-5mm from the lugs on the handbrake drum (if they're not bent) and check the 3 wires from it are not damaged and properly connected. Apparently there is a LED light on the sensor which should flash as the lug passes the sensor although I've never noticed it. (Difficult being underneath while the vehicle is moving).
A quick alternative to chasing the alternator to tacho wiring problem is to replace it with a separate wire.
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148
December 5, 2011 at 12:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter 334
Member
Posts: 118
I do have a Nissan Patrol and they are similar and as it is a drum design and no mount of whacking can remove it the drum, it could have and ring on it and the shoes are passed it and no matter how much you WHACK it, it won't move then you will have to back the adjustment right off and try again; so dont just wack things take time and smell the roses?
December 5, 2011 at 7:45 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Didn't get to the handbrake today. Put on A/C belt, then saw the rear bolt wasn't there, so found one suitable and used it, also saw the alt belt was very very loose. tightened it and had to use extra wide washers on the adjusting bracket as the tip had been cut off, leaving a fork which spreads and pulls smaller washers through.
The alt also has a cracked casing, should be ok i think with a bit of selleys knead it!
Found a chinese speedo sensor for $70 landed too, same part number as the Trukc one.
December 5, 2011 at 10:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dave and Pauline Gray
Member
Posts: 84
My expierence with the removal of brake drums whether it be hanbrake transmission type or axle mounted even after backing off the adjustment a couple of whacks is usually needed .
Cheers Dave
December 6, 2011 at 10:53 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter 334
Member
Posts: 118
Over the years I have never had to whack anything off from 1958 cars to 66, Holden, Ford or Valiant all had drum brakes front and rear. It doesn't hurt to spray some CRC where the drum contacts the hub and leave to soak. If not just whack like some people do!!!!!
December 9, 2011 at 7:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Finally got around to geting the handbrake drum off, been away working.
Found the shoes are covered in oil and there's a fair bit of play in the output shaft, looks like a new seal while I'm in there.
The handbrake would have to be the stupidest design, I can't even see an adjustment wheel in there, unless I'm just looking for the wrong type of adjuster. Handbrake wil be getting changed to something decent for sure.
December 22, 2011 at 1:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, the adjuster is a small hex double ended bolt with left and right hand threaded sections, fitted with lock nuts, which screw into fixed turnbuckle blocks. See pic, I was replacing a clevis pin at the time.
Turning the hex head lengthens or shortens the turnbuckle to the operating rod which expands the shoes via a non-adjustable cam.
Later the LH threaded section failed (stripped thread) and I had to weld another section on to the bolt head. I agree it's not the best arrangement, but it can work well when set up right.
Best not to rely on it totally on a steep slope, use chocks and leave it in a low gear. Before I fixed the hand brake, I was parked in 1st gear on a gently sloping car park while I went to a shop and the weight of the Oka was sufficient to turn the engine and it rolled slowly across the car park, much to Janet's dismay who was in the passengers seat.
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148
December 22, 2011 at 2:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Ah ha, excellent thanks David. I am used to a totally different set up obviously, i was looking behind the shoes.
That pic will help, i saw that grease nipple this morning as it mine has no fitting left on it.
Out of curiosity, how hard is the rear transfer output seal to do, i picked one up today just in case.
Then i'm waiting on my wheel bearing socket to arrive and tackle the rotor exchange, and wheel stud which i snapped, they're not cheap either
December 22, 2011 at 8:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, I haven't replaced the seal myself but looking at the manual pic, it seems the seal is pressed into the adaptor block on the rear of the transfer box and is accessible after removing the output flange.
You'll probably need a rattle gun to remove the centre nut on the shaft (tightened to 90-130 ft-lbs) unless you can lock the flange somehow, then a puller to remove the old seal. Same principle applies to diff seals, which I have done.
Check other posts (or post another query) on hub bearing nuts and lock washers which can also be fun. Also the last section of this article on front axle/hub rebuild may help, same principle front and rear but rear bearings run in diff oil. You might want to consider replacing the rear hub oil seal while the hub is out as they are prone to leaking axle oil.
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148
December 22, 2011 at 9:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Thanks again David. I have a few rattle guns and torque wrenches so should be right in that department.
Hopefully the seal can be replaced easily, i know some cruiser ones can and some have to have the transfer out.
I'll look into the axle seals too, they aren't leaking ATM but probably wouldn't hurt to do. These Danas are a lot different to what i'm used to, total learning curve, which is good, more knowledge.
December 23, 2011 at 7:52 AM
Aussie Bight Expeditions
Member
Posts: 109
If you are doing the rear ones for the broken stud and you do the seal/ Rotors etc, check the bearings and pack the bearings in grease. If you do not they will scorch the surface of the bearing unit and they will fail very quickly.
Reason as Robin Wade told me, was they have no lubricate on them, as the oil takes awhile to get around them. He advises all bearings no matter where they are to pack them first, the grease does no harm to them or use a product they call Honey in the engine rebuilding industry.
Also replace the oil that is lost out of the diff when you do this. Jack the OKA up high on the side you are doing the job and you only loose what is in the hub section.
You might know all this already but it was very good advice at the time from someone who really knows OKA's.
I asume you have been told that the rotor holes need to be enlarged. No problem measure yours when you get them off and drill to same size. I found out that over the years of replacing them due to rust and would of not passing roadworthy every few years, Due to the beach work that I did, not hit them in all the way, but started them, the bolts, and used on old rim cut down or you can use a rim to pull the bolts through evenly with the nuts and a spanner then the will line up when the unit is put all back together. I found out the hard way once when I had someone helping me did it wrong, I onlt found out when I went to put the wheel on, that thge studs were not as they should have been.
Regards ABE TONY
--
December 23, 2011 at 8:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
I take it the bearings are running in oil and not grease then? So there's no seal between the hub and axle?
Just questions beore i go and pull it apart. Might as well ask this too, seeing as i'm changing the rotors, unfortunately only 1 rear and one front are buggered, so i was going to replace both rears with new ones and the good rear one to go in the front to replace the worn one.
I have a set of bearings or the front and rear(spares), so if any need replacing i will do it then. What seals will i need? Hub seals definately? Be good to get everything i need first as the parts may not be on hand here in Katherine, although they have been pretty good as there are a couple in the area.
Cheers and sorry for all the questions, as i said, learning curve on the dana's
December 23, 2011 at 1:35 PM
David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.