Power Steering Box

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31 Oct 2012 19:05 - 18 Jun 2013 07:10 #1 by dandjcr
dandjcr created the topic: Power Steering Box
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Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Does anyone know the model of the Kirby Bishop power steering box in the XT?

Mine has a lot of wear and slop in it, so would like to replace it. I know of the TRW upgrade to the TAS-30, but at almost a quarter of what i paid for the truck it is not going to happen.
I have been told the Kirby Bishop box is from the early F-Series F250, but don't know the year or if it was L/H or R/H drive model.
With the abundance of the F250 here and the USA it would be financially viable to buy a few and if/when they need replacing/overhauling to have a few spares on hand.
All i have been able to get info wise is from mine, which has 9792 cast into the body and D3 stamped on a machined surface.
I have rung Allan and they only have the TAS-30. I have also rung Bishop Steering, but they have no data so far on which box it was, they were bought by a German company in 2007 and most old info was thrown out.
Any help would be appreciated.
May 29, 2012 at 10:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

T & D Morris
Member
Posts: 29
Hi
The XT manual calls the box an A50920. ( Exchange 25.004 )
A company in Perth that overhauls the boxes ( just called them to check ) is South side Power Steering 08 93550188.
Terry
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May 29, 2012 at 3:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

joseph baz
Member
Posts: 331
Luke,see if you can find even a second hand TAS 30,the kirby is a shit of a box and nothing but headaches IMO a waste of money.
Cheers Joe
May 29, 2012 at 4:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Moose2367
Member
Posts: 110
Thanks guys. I can get an upgraded box the same as the Kirby, but it's a custom job and going to cost $2250.
I've rung a lot of places to try and find a TAS30, to no avail, except Allan at Oka spares, but that means spending the $4000 odd for the kit plus the labour to fit it. Having the cab off will make it easier and probably quicker though.
If anyone hears of a second hand TAS30, and has a pic of the brackets required etc, and would be interested in parting with it, let me know.
I am also thinking of adapting a Hino, Isuzu or similar, last resort though.
I'll do a search for part number from the manual, thanks Terry.
May 29, 2012 at 4:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Moose, when I was researching steering boxes to repair a top seal leak, I found the TAS30 to be a fairly rare beast, manufactured in Spain and fitted to only a few makes of small European trucks.
Other TRW TAS series steering boxes are more common and you might find another s/h or remanufactured model (eg TAS40) more readily available, if it can do the same job.
This TRW Spec Sheet and TRW Service Manual is a good place to start your search. This maintenance guide is a European document and shows the complete TAS range (including the TAS30), and there are other useful documents on this TRW website .
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148

May 30, 2012 at 7:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Hallandal
Member
Posts: 133
I got my TRW Steering Box through
Australian Importers: Complete Steering Australia Pty.Ltd. Phone 03 9369 2659
New TRW Steering Boxes and Rebuilds (To NT Standard)

--
David Hallandal
OKA-131 Home Page
OKA Camper Trailer
XT and LT Service Manuals on CD For Sale
20mm Spring Hanger Upgrade Kits For Sale

May 30, 2012 at 7:38 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Hallandal
Member
Posts: 133

Old and New Steering Boxes

Removal of Old Bracket

Bracket to be Removed

Ready to install no brackets

New Bracket

Need an Extra hole here

Brackets being fitted

2 Brackets bolted to the steering box ready to align

All tacked in

End result Fitted
Hope this helps.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
Last Edit: 18 Jun 2013 07:10 by dandjcr.

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17 Jun 2013 14:29 #2 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Power Steering Box
Well i'm at Mutee Head at the moment on the debut voyage (which is in it's first month of many), everything surprisingly has gone well so far mechanically so quite pleased with the rebuild! And wow, although the oka with a big camper on the back has it's limitations it really is an awesome 4wd! Aspecially with the big michies on! Anyway, i digress... On the way down here from Punsand Bay i've sprung a leak (a big leak!) from the top seal of the power steering box. I'm a bit surprised as i've been watching everything closely and it wasn't there before we took off today but is pi**ing out now! I'll keep a track of it and keep topping it up until i can get somewhere i can either refit the seal or get a new box. I've read David Ribans seal replacement (here: dandjribbans.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/fix...ng-steering-box.html THANKS DAVID!) but mine has a lot of slop so what i'm wondering is:
1) Can the slop be adjusted?
2) and, roughly how much is a new box?
It's the TAS-30 box FYI.
Thanks everyone in advance!
Cheers, Alister

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17 Jun 2013 15:24 - 18 Jun 2013 07:28 #3 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Power Steering Box
Alister, Mutee Heads is a very nice place to breakdown in but a tad remote from a spare parts store.

Are the outdoor facilities still there?

Re the steering leak, slop isn't good but can you tell where it is? Is new since you set out? Is it the top input shaft or the front output shaft or maybe (clutching at straws here) a loose tie rod end or steering colum UJ?

Fortunately, the fluid coming out of the top seal is not at high pressure, it's the return line, so if you can put up with the leak and replenish the fluid, it's not a MAJOR brake or steering risk. At it's worst, our leak was about 250ml a day but even that made a heck of a mess, blowing down the side of the Oka and collecting dust. As you would have read I made up a containment arrangement from an empty wine bladder (we had to empty it first) fitted around the steering box with tape and tie-wraps with the tap downwards, to reduce fluid dispersal. We did about 5000km like that and I saved the leaking fluid daily from the tap on the bladder in case we had to filter and reuse it, but we didn't get that desperate, a 4 litre +1 litre cans were sufficient.

There was no additional slop with our leak. There are some adjustments for "lash" in the Pitman arm setting and poppet settings (end stops) but they don't look like side-of-the-road type adjustments, they are really installation set up adjustments. This TRW maintenance guide will provide bedtime reading. There are no "slop" adjustments where you can take up any slack. So any internal play would be caused by wear or failure, and overhauling a steering box is a non-trivial exercise, akin to an injector pump, even if the spares were available.

You could replace the top seal up there if you get the seal kit sent up plus a few pipe terminations. Weipa would be the only place with decent workshop facilities "nearby", about 400km, for a bigger job.

But somehow I doubt you would need a new steering box, they seem quite reliable, and if you can identify the source of the slop we can probably advise further. With the engine OFF, get someone to waggle the steering wheel while you feel for any loose joints or unexpected movement.

In the meantime enjoy the west coast of the Cape, but no swimming, there are bities in the water. Or take a trip out to the Islands.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
Last Edit: 18 Jun 2013 07:28 by dandjcr.

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18 Jun 2013 07:34 - 18 Jun 2013 07:38 #4 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Power Steering Box
Thanks David, no the slop is just the worn out components inside the box. I have plenty of tools etc to do the job so i'll get a price on a new box and make the decision then. It's a days work each way so it comes down to how much i'm willing to spend to get rid of the slop... not much. I looked last night at how much spare fluid i have and once i moved the two spare kitchen sinks out of the way i fould about 6 litres of spare fluid so i should be fine, although it is a fair leak so to avoid much further mess i'm thinking we'll get to the caravan park in Seisia and do either job there with a grassy workshop floor and great views out to the beach! I am assuming however that the caravan park will accept packages via mail for me! There's also a mechanic there who i could go to if things got too difficult but along with my two spare kitchen sinks i stupidly brought a lot of tools so SHOULD be ok.

Re the facilities David, the general structure is still there (very rusty compared to your pics) but the toilet isn't. Perhaps it got blocked up by the concrete piping below and they decided to remove it...?

I can think of worse places on earth to have mechanical difficulties! We're not on a time frame so I guess it forces us to enjoy the serenity up here... damn! ;)

Cheers, alister

ps. Unrelated to me, but looking at the pics of the kirby bishop, it reminds me of my old XF falcon steering box (my memory is bad at the best of times), am i on the money here or not?
Last Edit: 18 Jun 2013 07:38 by Alister McBride.

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18 Jun 2013 07:56 - 18 Jun 2013 08:19 #5 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Power Steering Box
Alister, you don't need much to fix the leak, just the seal and 2 pipe fittings to block the return line while fluid pressure forces out the old seal with a pop (about 2 seconds of pressure). The main thing to watch is that you don't insert the new seal too far in, it would be very difficult to remove. Just deep enough for the circlip to slot into it's groove is sufficient.

Assuming the slop is smooth, not graunchy or grinding, the box should hold together with a new top seal. The internal parts which could cause slop are the recirculating balls and worm gear, the rack and pinion and shaft bearings.



I understand Alan at Oka parts may have new replacement boxes but would not be cheap, maybe the other usual suspects might be able to help find a s/h unit. The original Kirby Bishop box doesn't get a good press.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
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Last Edit: 18 Jun 2013 08:19 by dandjcr.

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20 Jun 2013 10:07 #6 by Len208
Len208 replied the topic: Power Steering Box
Alistair,Just had the same problem myself on the Gibb River road.Had a reman. box sent from complete steering in Perth.I think the problem stems from the 325 tyres and the need to increase the turning circle.When this happens the relief valves in the box are no longer activated on full lock,which results in excessive heat and seal failure thru hardening.When putting the new box on I made the mistake of getting the Pitman arm 1 spline out,which set the new valves incorrectly giving me an even larger turning circle!!!.The valves cannot be readjusted except by the supplier in Perth.The box was $1500+freightHope this helps.

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20 Jun 2013 12:28 #7 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Power Steering Box
Gday Len, i was amazed only a couple of weeks after speaking to you i had the same problem! My money is on the seals being 15-22 years old making them hard but maybe what you were saying. Also, it's a pretty common problem even in vehicles with normal tyres anyway. On note of the 325's i have nearly the same steering circle as before as the old tyres never got anywhere near the springs, but i have adjusted the steering stops with these wheels so the tyres come pretty close to the springs... Oh and off topic, i've been running 50psi in the tyres up here, mostly gravel roads and corrugations (down from the max 70psi for highway use) and noticed the same sluggish symptoms you have on blacktop. Try 70psi on highway at your weight and you'll have a completely different drive, fuel, speed and handling wise.

Cheers, Alister

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20 Jun 2013 13:03 #8 by Len208
Len208 replied the topic: Power Steering Box
Alistair,the bit about the valves came from Hans at complete steering.I thought if overheating was the problem then the other seals could blow after putting a new top seal in.

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07 Jul 2013 07:09 - 07 Jul 2013 07:11 #9 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Power Steering Box
Well, after waiting for 2 weeks in Seisia for the seals to come through (the Bamaga PO staff are sick of the phone ringing! I found out the hard way that it takes an average of 12-13 business days for mail to get up there from Melb! I was lucky at 10.), i eagerly got to pulling the old seal out and found that the input shaft had lateral movement, or in technical terms it was fairly wobbly! So after seeing that and realising that my method of 'blowing' the old seal out wasn't working (i just tried to use blocked outlet hoses to build up pressure inside the box but after the hose blew i thought better of that!) i decided to put it all together again and drive it south with fluid going all over the vehicle! I'm up for a new box so will organise that come Monday. I've found it (obviously) depends on road conditions as to how much fluid leaks out, the rougher the road the bigger the leak.

Anyway, we're down to 4L left out of my starting point of 6L and we're half way to where i'll pick up the new box so on that equation 'we'll be right'!

So thanks everyone for your help! It's nice to know this forum is here. However, i did bump into another OKA with the same problem in Seisia and offered to help (even do the fix at the same time), also offered to pass on all this info but they didn't take it up! I hope they're ok!

Cheers, Alister
Last Edit: 07 Jul 2013 07:11 by Alister McBride.

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07 Jul 2013 07:21 #10 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Power Steering Box
Alister, now sounds like the input shaft bearing is FUBAR, but as long as the wheels turn OK the shaft itself isn't broken.

Cover the steering box to constrain the leakage or there'll be dusty, gooey mess everywhere, and drive gently.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.

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09 Jul 2013 07:15 #11 by Moose2367
Moose2367 replied the topic: Power Steering Box
I ended up getting an F250 steering box, had to make a new mounting bracket, similar process to changing to the new box and got an adaptor made for the shaft to the steering column, last time i drove it afterwards it was a massive improvement, even with the 37's on it.

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